117. The Mayor’s Race: Gina Ortiz Jones on Public Service, Equity, and Leading with Data

Bob Rivard [00:00:03]:
Welcome to Big City Small Town, the weekly podcast all about San Antonio and the people who make it go and grow. I'm your host, Bob Rivard. Today, we continue our April series of interviews with the leading candidates running for mayor in San Antonio. Remember, early voting gets underway Tuesday and runs through the following Tuesday. Election day is Saturday, May 3. Make your vote count. Our guest today is candidate for San Antonio Mayor Gina Ortiz Jones. She's a US Air Force veteran and a former Biden administration official who served a twenty month stint in the Pentagon as undersecretary of the Air Force from July 2021 to March 2023.

Bob Rivard [00:00:43]:
Ortiz Jones was also the 02/2018 Democratic nominee for Texas's 20 Third Congressional District, which runs from San Antonio to El Paso and includes most of the Texas Mexico border. She narrowly lost to incumbent Republican Will Hurd, and she ran again for the seat in 2020, but was defeated by US Navy veteran Tony Gonzalez. After her second loss, she joined the Biden administration. Gina Ortiz Jones, welcome to Big City Small Town.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:01:12]:
Good to be here.

Bob Rivard [00:01:13]:
Let's start by asking you to introduce yourself to audience members who may not know you or very much about you and and offer them a a a look at your personal story.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:01:22]:
Sure. I grew up on the Far West Side of town. Right? John Jay High School, exit seven for folks that know. And my store my family story really starts when my mom came to this country, though, over forty years ago. And she graduated from the number one university in The Philippines, but she wanted a chance at the American dream. And the chance presented itself, to be able to come here as a domestic helper. And she knew she and she said, said, you know, even I went to that country in that capacity capacity, if I was willing to work hard, the sky's the limit. And so she bet on herself.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:01:52]:
Right? That's the cloth that I'm cut from. She reminded my sister and I she raised us by herself, by the way. She reminded us that we're very lucky. Not smart. We were lucky to have been born in a special country. We'd have to give back. So I was honored to serve our country in a number of ways, serve in the air force in a number of ways. My sister proudly serves in the navy.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:02:10]:
Wasn't always easy. Reduced lunch, subsidized lunch, subsidized housing, those were critical investments. Not handouts, investments in my book, that allowed me to earn a four year Air Force ROTC scholarship, that took me from John Jay High School to Boston University. Oh, it's

Bob Rivard [00:02:24]:
a good school.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:02:25]:
It was you know, I you know what my criteria was. So I had the ROTC scholarship, but there was a little bit of a gap, right, in terms of, housing and tuition and other things. And I just thought, well, who when you went with a when you went there with a four year scholarship, they covered the rest of your tuition as well as your housing. You just had to maintain a three point o. So, thankfully, I was able to do that. But it was also informative for me, in a number of ways. Because I was there on a scholarship, I had to sign a piece of paper that said I would not engage in sexual behavior, because don't ask, don't tell was the policy at the time.

Bob Rivard [00:02:58]:
And What year was this, Gina?

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:03:00]:
So I showed a 18 year old kid, 1999. Yeah. And even before my very first day of class, Bob, I had to sign that piece of paper, and I knew what that meant. My opportunity to get an education, my opportunity to serve our country, my opportunity to die for our country if need be. All that goes away, just because at the time, we don't have enough leaders with the courage to say anybody ready and willing to serve their country should have the opportunity to do so. So when, you know, fast forward twenty some odd years, when I was honored to be nominated by president Biden and unanimously confirmed by the US Senate to serve as the twenty seventh undersecretary of the Air Force, first woman of color, first out lesbian to serve as the undersecretary of any military department. I challenged myself to be the leader that I wish I would have had as that young cadet, as that young officer. So I'm very proud of the barriers that I knocked down so folks could serve to their full potential and, frankly, send a real strong message to our young people about the kind of opportunities that they would equally have where should they also have the courage to raise their right hand and say, I'm willing to support and defend our constitution.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:04:01]:
So very proud of knocking down a lot of those barriers. That experience also showed me though, you know, whenever you are leading, whenever you are driving the decision, always question, who am I not hearing from and why am I not hearing from them? Again, having had that firsthand experience of working in an organization that could not be as equally invested as my in my success as they were the person next to me because it was the policy at the time, it caused and certainly, I would argue. So while I have managed a large budget, a hundred and $73,000,000,000 budget, led 600,000 people, those are skills, that would make me well prepared, to lead our city. I think also that firsthand experience of who am I not hearing from? I would argue that is an invaluable experience just as important to addressing many of the long standing inequities in our community, many of which you've written over on over your long career career in journalism here. Because many of those challenges are not new. Right? And that's why on my website, I've laid out the things I wanna work on in the first one hundred days. Even if we had a different president, even if we had a different governor, we'd still have the numbers that show over half of our kids, grades three through eight, are not reading at level. Their math skills are not at level.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:05:15]:
We'd still have 95,000 folks on the housing that are housing insecure based on our own, strategic housing implementation plan. You'd still have 67,000 folks on the wait list at Opportunity Home, and you'd still have way too many delayed construction projects in our community. So I think it's really important. Not only do, you know, you bring a skill set, which I do, but you have a plan. Right? Again, because we've got us move our city forward, and I think a a plan always keeps us focused, making sure we're rowing same way, same day, in light of unfortunate the, the uncertainty, at the federal at the state level.

Bob Rivard [00:05:46]:
Well, by the way, your, your your, candidate statement that you submitted to us was very, thorough and on point, very articulate.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:05:54]:
And how I roll, Bob.

Bob Rivard [00:05:55]:
And I invite our readers I invite our readers to go to bigcitysmalltown.com. Gina Ortiz Jones, her candidate statement is one of, multiple ones we've posted there. And if you want a more in-depth understanding of these candidates, that's an opportunity to read more and find out more. Two questions about your Air Force time. Number one, as an out, lesbian, did you feel in the military in the military hierarchy in Washington and the Pentagon, did you feel respected and listened to? And were you able to be effective? And if so, because let's

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:06:30]:
Are you talking you talking about as the under secretary?

Bob Rivard [00:06:31]:
Yes. As the under secretary. Exactly. And, of course, things are very different today Unfortunately right now than they were under the Biden administration. But, nevertheless, I wondered how you were treated and and and, whether or not people listened to you and respected your rank as, as as the second ranking civilian? And second of all, why did you leave in in, when you did in March of twenty twenty three? I kind of would have expected when I first read your bio that you would have stayed until the end of Joe Biden's term.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:07:01]:
Well, I think for folks that know the political appointee process, leaving right after the midterms is a natural point. You kind of follow that timeline. It allows folks I mean, as you know, it's a very kind of thorough process. It's a long process. You've gotta find the person, vet the person, and then put them up before the very, you know, arduous appointee process, or confirmation process. So leaving after the midterms is a natural point. You actually saw many people leave around that time. I very much enjoyed my service.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:07:26]:
We had a really strong team, and I think we were all very much focused on making sure that we were, organizing, training, and equipping the Department of the Air Force for many of the challenges, that are facing our country, especially when you look at the challenges in the Indo Pacific, the ways in which the People's Republic Of China challenges our security, our interest, and our values. And the Department of the Air Force have played a critical role in that increasingly through space capabilities. So I was honored. You know, the undersecretary, you spent a lot of time building the budget. Right? And, again, it's a hundred and $73,000,000,000 budget, and that's a process that you do in concert, and in collaboration with, obviously, folks on the hill to understand, hey. This is why we're gonna spend it here and in this way. This is how we see the the challenge or the opportunity. This is why that investment makes sense.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:08:12]:
And this is how it looks the distribution looks like between the air force and in the space and the space force. Right? So that's a real conversation with them. And, also, frankly, just laying flat, how we see it versus how others may see it because not everybody is looking at these things in the same vein. So I think that's, again, an experience that is important for me, in thinking about leading our city, which is the importance of talking about the consequences of some of the laws, and changes both at at the at the federal level and at the state level and how they challenge our ability to grow as a city, make smart investments, and address basic things, everything from public health to, you know, the real advantages that we have in our manufacturing sector that we should really be leaning into. So I'm very thankful for, the opportunity to have led, and I absolutely felt respected, and and really changed those things that I thought were in that stood in the way. And then, you know, it would these things were raised by some of the service members in terms of long standing challenges, because I think at the end of the day, right, again, having had my own experience, every action, every word conveys the the the value that you do or do not place on somebody's service. And so I'll, you know, distinctly remember one evening, I was, looking at a binder of applications, and it's these folks that are enlisted and wanted to go become an officer. And so it's called officer training school, and so you have a binder of 10 names.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:09:35]:
And each of the senior, I think it was the top four at the time. So the secretary and myself and then the two service, the service secretaries, actually, the chief excuse me. And then the I think it was the vice as well who also got got to look at a binder, but we each got 10 names. And you look through it, and I remember looking because it was, like, 07:00 at night. I remember looking at this binder, and it was, like, 10 names, and only one of them was a woman. And then I remember looking in her file, and it's in the waiver section. She needed a waiver because she was pregnant. And I thought, I wonder why I have to know that she is pregnant as part of this application process, because, you know, being pregnant is not a permanent condition.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:10:13]:
She will one day not be pregnant. And also, if you understand the timeline of that application process, by the time she applied and maybe was ultimately selected, she probably would not be pregnant again. Right? I think also given my firsthand experience with policies that don't make sense. Right? It really showed me because I know what that meant in practice. You know what? I said, I bet somebody didn't apply because they saw they saw they would have to submit a waiver. So they're like, they're I'm not gonna get selected because I need a waiver. They'll never select me. So they didn't apply.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:10:40]:
Or secondly, right, also as, as, realistic, a commander is looking at two packages and says, hey. I really want my person to be selected. Do I put forward the person that needs a waiver or not? Right? So, you know, oftentimes, it can be person that's not, who's got the easier path. So I think it really requires leaders that are thoughtful about, you know, why we're doing the things that we're doing and how are they making sure that we are accomplishing our mission. So I tasked our folks. Hey. Show me how me needing to know that this person is pregnant made us a more lethal force. Right? And if you can show me that, then this makes sense.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:11:12]:
If not, though, we need to look at at at why this what what is the thing that this is based on? Oh, by the way, show me all the other gender specific policies that we've got on the books. Tell me why it's needed, if it was ever needed at all. Do we need to keep it, or do we need to modify it, or do we need to just get rid of it? Right? Because then if you're gonna deny people opportunities, you better be able to explain it. So fast forward. Right? Fast forward, they came back and said, actually, what happened, why that was the case. Somebody had inter the current policy is you cannot go to OTS when you're pregnant. And so somebody had interpreted that to mean you have to tell us when you're that when you're applying that you are pregnant. Obviously, those are two very different things.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:11:50]:
So, anyways, I pushed. We changed that policy. Now somebody, and the course of applying, does not have to tell us they're pregnant. And two, if they are pregnant at the time they are selected, they will hold that place for them for about fifteen months. Right? So to to allow for, make the appropriate decision about when it is appropriate to attend. And so, you know, one, I got a lot of, you know, very nice gifts, when I was at the the department of the Air Force, people are always you know, they got coins and this or that. But one of the most important gifts that I received was actually a thank you note, handwritten thank you note from many women that had a firsthand experience with that policy and how it denied them opportunities. So some of them signed it, you know, sergeant so and so.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:12:32]:
I was, selected for the program, but when they found out I was pregnant, I was taken off the list. Right? Or so and so. I applied three times for OTS. I kept getting pregnant, so I was never able to go. Right? So at the end of the day, right, I think a leader's number one job is to develop more leaders, and at times, that requires knocking down barriers that don't make sense. So where did this come from? Not only am I, you know, raised by a badass single mom. Right? But I'm also somebody that recognizes we have talent all throughout, and it's up to us to make sure that we are fully tapping into the talent that we've got. So that's just one example.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:13:05]:
The other one, as part of that, we found out that the Royal Thai Air Force would did not accept female officers. So, of course, the natural question is why? Right? And folks didn't have a good answer because and that's a very prestigious opportunity with the when we send somebody to an international school. And so I you know, so much so that nobody could answer the question. I said, well, look. If you're if they're not gonna take a female officer, then we're not gonna send any officer because I cannot explain to people why we are denying them this opportunity. And so we worked with the secretary of defense's office. They, carried the water, and, ultimately, we changed that policy. And the woman, the officer that we sent happened to be Thai American.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:13:42]:
Oh, by the way, when she got to the course, she was the only one with any wartime deployment experience. Right? So she was actually leading many of those conversations. And so as a result of us sending one officer, the Royal Thai Air Force sent five other officers, five of their own officers, and that was another very thankful very thoughtful, thank you note that I received, which is, you know, we always knew that we could we were good enough to be there. We are thankful for American leadership that allowed us to be in these courses. So I think we can never underestimate the importance of American leadership and certainly the importance of of of courage in making decisions that are in the ultimately, in the long term strength of an organization. So when it comes to San Antonio, right, we should be asking these tough questions. For example, we know where we've got the highest rate of return. It's always investing in smart, healthy kids.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:14:30]:
So show me the first hundred days. Show me how many kids. How much talent are we leaving on the table as a result of not fully funding pre k for SA, and then show me the bill. This is a bill I would argue we cannot afford to not pay given the long, long standing inequities in our community. Right? Let's also make sure we're making smart investments. Look at the ready to work program. That is a program that just crossed over the the 2,000 person graduate threshold, but still less than 25% of those folks are in an approved program after twelve months approved job after twelve months. That means we're not training people to need.

Bob Rivard [00:15:04]:
The wage levels, the the median wages they're earning aren't as high as we had hoped either.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:15:08]:
Well, we also when you talk I talked to some city council folks about this. We lose a lot of people to Houston. Houston pays more. And, you know, and now there are the subsidization of, subsidizing, you know, multimillion dollar corporations in our community to do internal training that we all know they would have done anyways just so we can take credit for their numbers the ready to work program. That's not how the program was sold. Again, I think I think that that program is an excellent example of where San Antonio's heart is always in the right place, but the data now has shown that we need to make some some modifications. I think the new metric should be 90% of folks in a job within ninety days. There are some some fields within that are having good success.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:15:48]:
I and I went to go see this for myself, community health care professionals that are ready to work partner. They've got a campus on, Zarzaur Mora. Randy Bullis walked me around and talked to me about, you know, showed me the kind of a student profile. Student profile, 26 year old Latina, couple kids, single mom. 40% of them spent some time at Palo Alto or Northwest Visa, but it just didn't work. Right? And now they've got more responsibility, so they wanted something better. And they are doing things like, you know, medical billing, had, the admin piece, med tech. Right? They're not the doctor or the nurse, but they're everybody else in that clinic that's making it work.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:16:24]:
So really, again, needs that are in our community. We haven't we're not we haven't AI'd our way out of drawing blood yet, so this is something that's still needed. It was important also to to kinda see what that looks like, but also understanding that all of those ready to work participants are there because of a $7,300 Pell grant. Right? So when we're thinking about what's happening with the attacks on the Department of Education and potential uncertainty around Pell grant funding, what that could mean in our community, not only for that individual, right, but that family, but also that skill that we thought was gonna come back to our community that may no longer if that funding goes away. So I think you want a mayor that is, one, looking at the data. Are we making a smart investment? But also, oh, by the way, hey, federal government, If this money goes away, this is what it looks like in our community.

Bob Rivard [00:17:06]:
Well, that was a lot. But, listening to you talk about your experience at the Pentagon, I wish I could have a conversation with you for an hour just about national security concerns. But since we're talking local, it just local with that.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:17:19]:
No. Jersey USA.

Bob Rivard [00:17:21]:
It just reminded me listening how deeply embedded, you are in the in in that world. You have a background at the air force that you served your intelligence in Washington, so forth. So tell people what why you pivoted and decided to run for mayor.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:17:35]:
Public service is where my heart is. Right? I have seen, again, true national security. When you when I have served all over the world, and I'm thankful importance of a strong middle class, and much of that starts here at home. Actually, if you look at the last national security strategy, it talks about all the things that we need to be doing at home to ensure that we have sufficient talent. We have sufficient sufficient academically prepared people. Right? People that are not susceptible to misinformation, disinformation, as well as, again, people that feel like they are represented. When people are disenfranchised and don't feel like the system is there for to serve them, then that's when you have instability, right, as you see in so many parts of the world. That's why our leadership, our example is so important on a number of ways.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:18:23]:
Not only our democracy, but even on basic things, you know, like how we how we treat reproductive health care. Right? And and and how not sufficiently, addressing that in a way that is sufficient actually deters our ability to lead in so many other ways. So I've been very proud of my public service. Much of that, again, is because of the investments that I had here. I'm a proud product of public education. And I say now in light of the attacks on public education, I'm a proud product of title one schools. Right? Adams Adams Hill Elementary School, Pease Middle School, John Jay High School. Again, it's the great equalizer, in our in our community and and recognizing that one in 10 kids in the country calls Texas home.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:19:05]:
So we have an outsized impact on our economy, our country's economy, but also on national security. And so your to your point, San Antonio is military city USA not just because we have a large presence of active duty personnel here, you know, 16%, is either active duty or or veteran, but also because we contribute so much to the pipeline. Right? And I saw this as the under secretary, especially because we've got a recruiting crisis. The number one indicator of whether somebody will serve in the military is if they know somebody who has served. So that makes communities like San Antonio, Bexar County very important to the pipeline, because the vast majority of people that serve in the country come from about 30 counties, and Bexar County is one of them. And so if we are not preparing we if we are not producing enough healthy kids, enough academically prepared kids to serve, that is in fact the national security issue just because of what we contribute to the pipeline. It is also an issue, though, for our own local community because they may not be healthy enough or academically prepared enough for the economy that we need them to be prepared for. So we've got to think about that in the context of, our own investments.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:20:07]:
But, you know, it was interesting seeing many of the, one of the things that I did at the, at the Pentagon was, participate in that process to determine where future missions would go. And that was really illustrative for me because I remember right before I got to the Pentagon, and I was still here at home, I remember we were competing for that space related headquarters. Mhmm. Right? And we didn't compete well for that. Now it was always gonna be a stretch because there wasn't already a space mission here. But I think when you take, you know, when you take a test, you you get the basic things right. And if you remember, one of the things that we were dinged on, and hurt our competitiveness there was child care. So much so that, so I remembered that.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:20:46]:
I remembered I need to look at that when I get there. Right? And then I remember every town hall, Bob, that I had, I would get a question on child care. And that's not surprising when you look at the makeup of the military. Lots of young kids. Right? And so I was like, jeez. I've I've got a lot of anecdotes, but I need some data. Right? I think the three most important questions any leader can ask, why, why not, and where is the data? And so I tasked our our our folks to look at the data and truly look at where do we have the longest wait list. Right? And how are we chipping away at that? How are we addressing it? Because I get it at every single town hall.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:21:19]:
Come to find out, Joint Base San Antonio has the longest childcare wait list in the entire Department of Defense. Right? On top of that, the data showed that if a service member, female service member, if she already had one kid on the child on the wait list at CDC, childcare child development center, she already had a kid on the wait list there. If she got pregnant again, the odds of her getting out increased by three times. So that cyber officer, that linguist speaking that really specialized language. Right? We lose talent. We're not when we're not investing in these things that disproportionately impact certain parts of our of our, of our service members. So that, oh, by the way, is, so when we think about childcare, not only is it a good quality of life issue for our military members and an operate operational readiness issue, I would argue, when you look at those data, but it's also good for San Antonio families. Right? Which is why in the first one hundred days, I wanna look at, hey.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:22:12]:
Those schools that have recently closed, and it's not just ASA ISD now, which you've got some of the Northeast Side. How quickly can we transition those, right, to pre k for SA or for childcare? We know that need exists. We know that infrastructure is is right for that. So how can we quickly, again, transition and and help to meet the need in our community? Because that's ultimately, again, what this is about is delivering results. So all of that experience, I think, has helped me, understand how we can be thoughtful about some immediate impacts, but also longer term and setting ourselves up, you know, thinking about what we might be military city USA Twenty Forty Five, Twenty Fifty Five. Certainly bringing new missions here, but also making sure we're doing the best we can by San Antonio families.

Bob Rivard [00:22:50]:
By the way, we have the early matters team. They were in the in the studio, and our producer Corey Aames can tell us. But I think as soon as we get finished with all the mayoral candidates, they're on, and they're talking about their next five year plan for pre k for SA and and, ramping it up to reach more people. So you have this national network from your background, and you've got some very prominent endorsements and donors to your campaign. We'd run out of time if I named them all, but they're on the website. That's right. People wanna go to them. But Emily's List, Annie's List, VOTE Vets, Elect Democratic Women, LGBTQ Victory Fund.

Bob Rivard [00:23:25]:
It's pretty much a who's who of Democratic groups that advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion, the very values that are under attack right now by the Trump administration. And I it makes me wonder, on the one hand, if you've really left national politics behind or if that's in your blood and you're converting to local. And second of all, the concern that I would raise is we have nonpartisan elections here by city charter. Not every Texas city does. Houston, Dallas, and some other places, people run as a Democrat or Republican, but our city charter is still nonpartisan. But we're now seeing for the first time outside money in our local races. Not just you. You're receiving money.

Bob Rivard [00:24:07]:
Over on the right, Rolando Pablo is being, extensively, funded by governor Abbott, in a political action committee. And I can only, I mean, I don't donate like this as a journalist, but the average person or company here can only donate a thousand dollars by city council rules. They could change those, but that that's the rule in place is a thousand dollars maximum. It seems impossible for people that are just locally funded to compete with people that are nationally funded. And I think I'm one of many people that worry about is outside money going to start unduly controlling local races.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:24:44]:
I mean, I think, look, there's been many, well, first of all, let me go back to your your the premise of your question. I'm very thankful for the support of a group like VoteVets. VoteVets, I mean, they have done so much to really help people understand the moment in time that we are in. Less than 1% of folks will serve in uniform. And so when we think about the oath to support and defend the constitution, right, and why it's important that we have a commander in chief that understands not only the service of our service members, and the sacrifice that they make, but also to whom they are accountable, and it is the constitution. So I've been very thankful for their support because they understand we need good leaders at all levels. And I'm very thankful for my record of public service, which has been apolitical largely. As a member in the armed forces, as an Iraq war veteran, intelligence community.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:25:37]:
It's always been rooted in the constitution and in doing things that are good for the country. And, again, I'm not I don't certainly don't apologize for any of that. And the, you know, the so I'm I'm thankful for, as well the numb the amount of local support that I've got. When you look at the number of of, local donors, I it eclipses many, of those. So I'm thankful for the the local support, that knows that we can move our city in the right direction. It's not gonna just happen, though. Right? It requires good leadership. So I think we're all playing the hand that we're we're dealt.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:26:11]:
I think we also all know, you know, the the real opportunity we have to make sure our city is well led, and good leadership is that is what it'll require. So, I mean, I would leave it there.

Bob Rivard [00:26:23]:
Okay. So, some of your opponents say you haven't lived and worked in San Antonio and that you're not sufficiently embedded in this community to be able to lead it yet. The UTSA Center for Public Opinion Research just released its latest poll. And once again, you're you're top of the list. It's interesting with 27 people on the on the ballot that, voters clearly don't have a a clear understanding of who's running, and and, no you I think you have 12.8% in the latest. Nobody's dominating here. Nobody looks like they're even remotely close to being able to win in a first round. And it's really not even clear who the the two people will be by the time we we get to the, get to the, May election, the May 3 election of, of who will be selected.

Bob Rivard [00:27:12]:
It seems kinda wild to me. I've never seen an election where people seem so undecided.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:27:18]:
I'm thankful for the support that we have, and we'll continue working hard. I mean, we've knocked on, I wanna say, close to 50,000 doors, if not just over that already. And, you know, it's interesting. I wanted to mention when you mentioned the the the, nonpartisan piece. I, I go to a lot of neighborhood association meetings. Right? As we should. Right? Again, because one is our our city is so economically segregated. When you also go into communities and you see firsthand what people are dealing with, you know, I think I think you're just a better leader as a result of that.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:27:47]:
So I remember going to the, Ingram Hills neighborhood association. Ingram Hills is not unlike Heritage where I grew up on the far West side of town. Heritage, again, Marbach in 410, right behind Saint Rose of Lima Catholic Church. And there they were well, first off, there was a woman that walked in, and she was wearing a shirt, had Mount Rushmore on it, and they had superimposed Trump's, face on it. And then it said deplorables at the bottom. And I was like, well, this this woman is clearly engaged. Right? She's at a neighborhood association meeting. And so, I was like, well, let me let me go talk to her.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:28:22]:
And I, you know, introduced myself, said I was running for for mayor, but I didn't say, hey. I'm a Democrat. Right? Like, because I'm a normal person. But I did say, you know, I'm running for mayor, and these are the things that I think are important. Right? These are the ways in which I think we can, you know, bring down costs, make sure we're making smart investments, and, you know, certainly make sure we're having a really robust community discussion about potential major investments. And so we have a good discussion. And then at the end of it, she says, you know what? I'll take a sign. So I am very encouraged.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:28:50]:
And I don't I mean, I have a lot of those engagements where, again, it's when you are talking about the issues on top of my record of public service, on top of, my record of delivering results. So I think that's ultimately what people want. Right? Now nonpartisan, though, doesn't mean no principles. Right? So people know where I am on, on on issues that are are not just someone argue they're partisan. I would argue it's just about health care. Right? And it's about economic issues. So I'm I'm, again, thankful for how hard we are working, and I think that is reflected in in the polls, and we'll continue to to do that. We're gonna run through the tape.

Bob Rivard [00:29:24]:
Alright. Let's talk about some of the challenges and opportunities. First, on my list, economic development. What's your approach gonna be to that as a mayor? And, whoever the next mayor, is will come into an environment where San Antonio feels like we haven't been very competitive with Austin, Dallas, and Houston on all these corporate relocations and expansions to Texas that have occurred since the particularly since the pandemic, but, we're seeing an awful lot of movement from California into the state. We did, win JCB last year, the British heavy manufacturer, heavy equipment manufacturer. That was a real big one. But, so many more, dozens went to Austin, Dallas, and Houston that we didn't get. So the next mayor, I think the the expectation is how do we become more competitive in that world and create more jobs.

Bob Rivard [00:30:11]:
Mhmm. Good job. When I think of create more jobs. Mhmm. Good job. When I

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:30:15]:
think of economic development, I think it's it starts with the data, and I think it starts where we have some natural advantages. San Antonio is the twenty first largest manufacturing exporting region in the country. Right? 5% of our workforce is in manufacturing. That's $34,000,000,000 just in payroll. Right? So for me, what I'd wanna do is, again, work with our stakeholders, San Antonio Manufacturing Association, South Texas Business Partnership, Greater SATX. Hey. What's the plan? Right? How do we go from 21 to 17 to 14 to 12? Certainly, that'll require collaboration with, our our state, partners both when it comes to TxDOT, just making sure we've got sufficient infrastructure North South, but but also East East West. And, yes, topping into the Texas Economic, Development Bank Fund to ensure we are getting our our appropriate, piece of the pie there.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:31:03]:
But, again, those are places where, again, we'll we'll work together. I would argue, I also competitiveness in the types of not just our manufacturing, but also in the defense space, defense sector. Excuse me. In particular, what we've got an opportunity for more more manufacturing expansion is, on in the space sector, both on the defense and on the civilian side. I think we're right for that. I think it's important also though that we're when we're I would argue one other area we're right for is also in cyber command. The cyber command that the governor wants to place here Yeah. That's we've got natural talent already with sixteenth Air Force and and the NSA presence.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:31:38]:
Again, we can we can, really lean into that and be thoughtful about attracting folks. But it's not just, you know, what we are doing today, but also making sure that we're working in concert, with Alamo Community Colleges and our other higher education partners to, you know, credibly say to others, not only was it a good investment for you to come today, but this is how we're building the pipeline to ensure that we can continue to meet your needs and if you choose to expand here, what it would look like. It's as important, though, Bob, that we are talking with these same partners about the ways in which their policies, laws are making it harder for us to grow the way we want to. Right? 2,022 was the first year we saw an increase in teenage pregnancy in our state, right, due to the abortion bans. And who's driving that? Young Latinas. And so that is as much of an economic issue as any other. Wishing a double we said doubling in of of of of sepsis in our community. You're now reading of OBGYNs.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:32:33]:
They don't wanna train here. They don't wanna come here. That's an economic issue. Right? We cannot we can only grow, at a rate in which we have sufficient medical personnel to ensure that we are treating all the needs of our community. So when I think of economic development, it is it's broad. Right? Yes. Let's think about the opportunities with the merger of UT Health Science Center and UTSA. Let's think about manufacturing expertise.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:32:54]:
Let's think about our cyber expertise. Let's also make sure we're being very truthful about the challenges to our community as a result of some of these decisions that are affecting the true public health, public education, etcetera, that are constraints in our ability to grow the way we want to.

Bob Rivard [00:33:10]:
You know, one bill, Gina, that's working its way through the house, Texas house, and has the governor's support would fundamentally change the way cities, operate, their five year bond cycles. And it would require us moving from a majority vote, which is the current existing model, to two thirds vote, which would seriously hamper our abilities to go out to the bond markets and raise money for infrastructure investment. So it's hard to imagine when lawmakers keep trying to limit home rule of cities, and we've had a very contentious relationship now for about five sessions, legislative sessions, how the next mayor is possibly gonna try to figure out, can we work more effectively with these state elected leaders who are all Republicans and and and very much are closer to Washington and the Trump administration with their orientation than they are to the cities where they perceive the cities to be blue, democratic, and and, we've been under attack.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:34:06]:
I mean, I think it fundamentally starts with leadership, and being very I mean, you go in with the best of intentions. Right? You go in with a plan. I think you also have to go in with the data, right, and be very clear. This is where I think we've got some opportunities, which are good not only for San Antonio and our region, but also for the state. Right? And this is, you know, what a collaboration could look like, for example. And then, yes, being very clear, though, about these are in fact constraining our ability. And many of these challenges are probably not exclusive to San Antonio. You'd I mean, the issue with OB GYNs, the issues with sepsis, public health, those are we're seeing throughout throughout the state.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:34:41]:
Right? So, really, I think more fully, painting the picture for how this is costing us more than it's actually benefiting us. But I think you go in with, you know, again, armed with the data, good intentions, negotiating in and collaborating where you can and, you know, disagreeing where you have to.

Bob Rivard [00:35:01]:
Okay. And, you already mentioned ready to work, and it sounds to me like you would, you would take a hard look at that, but but you see it, you know, as as a have having potential to continue.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:35:13]:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think the data is very clear, though, that, we may need yeah. We've gotta tinker with that because 25% of folks not having an approved not being in an approved job after twelve months, that is not that's not I don't think that is not where we want to be, nor should we be. So being really focused about, okay, where do we have the highest rate of return, and where can we where can people walk into a job? Because that means we're training people for a need in our community. And at the end of the day, this is, yes, about upskilling people but putting more money in their pocket so they can have more money to spend on their families and our communities, etcetera. Right? That's the real metric.

Bob Rivard [00:35:47]:
How do you, regard the housing bond which voters approved in 2021? So for the 2022 bond, that was the very first time, hundred and 50,000,000. Most of that money, the city's funneling to, the private sector and public private developments, and it seems to be going very well. And, I think the the consensus is that whoever is elected next, not just mayor, but city council that that will there's an expectation the 2027 bond, which you'll set in 2026, will have an even larger component of, housing money if if the those that are elected share that view. I wonder how where you stand on that.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:36:25]:
So, I mean, when we have 95,000 families in our community that are housing insecure based on our own ship, we've got 67,000 folks on the wait list for Opportunity Home. The 4,000 affordable housing units allotted for in the 02/2022 bond is insufficient. Right? We have to go much faster, be much more aggressive. And so, yes, the 27 bond has to think about the need, but also, ultimately, also where we're going. Right? We continue, to, frankly, over perform expectations of population growth. Right? So it's really important that we try to get ahead of this as much as we can. I think it's also important though when we're looking at opportunities like, you know, developments downtown. I sat down with, I sat down with, Trish Deberry who runs Central

Bob Rivard [00:37:13]:
Central San Antonio.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:37:14]:
And really just wanted to understand, hey. What's what's the plan for downtown? Right? Because and so I'd let read their strategic plan, and now this had not yet been informed by either the stadium or Project Marvel, the goals to me were illustrative of of the direction. Right? So they wanna have 25,000 folks downtown. They've got 12,500 now. They want

Bob Rivard [00:37:33]:
residents living here?

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:37:34]:
Yeah. That's right. In the Central Business District. Yeah. They wanna have all basic services within two miles. Now, obviously, that can't mean a two hour bus ride over the otherwise, that's not, that's that's not convenient. They wanna have 10,000 students housed downtown. They wanna have, I appreciate this goal, which is they want of the storefront businesses downtown, 75% of those folks to be local small businesses.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:37:58]:
And that's great. Right? Because people are not coming to San Antonio for a rainforest cafe. They want something a little more authentic. So I think it's about making sure we're thinking about housing, though, with everybody in mind. Right? We can't do, you know, first all luxury and then all market plus and then mark right? We've got to make sure we're thinking about, you know, that person that works at the hotel, the valet person, that person that works at the hospital as as cleaning staff. Not everybody, you know, who wants to buy their first home, for example, also wants to live on almost Modena County. So we've got to be thoughtful about, the housing piece. I think a real important part of this as well is Opportunity Home.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:38:35]:
That's an important partner. And I sat down with them to understand how how could the city be helpful because all of that money that they've got, that's all federal money. Right? And when people are talking about getting folks through there, they want their goal again, the goal is, they want folks self sustaining within five years. And so I asked, okay. Well, are you meeting that? Is it eight years? Is it five years? Or is it three years? Like, what does it actually look like? They didn't have the data to answer that question. But the reason I asked is because, you know, if we want, if we if we're not building it as fast as we would like, yet we have space, how do we get people through the pipeline faster? And so are you telling me, you know, are you telling me folks are staying here longer than five years because they don't have childcare? We're all okay. That's why it's important that we make investments in pre k for SAA and childcare, for example. If you're telling me people are here because, you know, they're not finding an, like, an appropriate job because of, you know, they don't have a GED.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:39:26]:
Well, if we do ready to work, there might be some version of that is, like, ready to graduate. Right? Wait. What is the how do we solve for this thing? Or if you're telling me folks can't get to work because, it's a transit issue, well, this is then a conversation we can have with VIA. But it really starts with the data to be able to then parse down where are we having these challenges and how can we be helpful. Because, again, that getting people through that pipeline is a key part of it.

Bob Rivard [00:39:47]:
Well, while we're on the subject of downtown, what's your assessment of Project Marvel? Where do you stand on that?

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:39:54]:
I stand on it'd be really helpful to understand, how much it's gonna cost and who gonna pay and how the city is gonna benefit. I think this has the potential to be a generational investment and do wonderful things for not only our downtown but our for our entire city, and that is very exciting to think about. We have to get a good deal, though. Because I talked to you know, even at that neighborhood association meeting that I mentioned, people remember kind of the promises around the other deals. Right? They remember, the promise around the Alamo Dome when Henry Cisneros said, hey. Let's use public money. Let's build the Alamo Dome. That'll make us competitive for an NFL team.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:40:29]:
The Braemos are cool. That is not an NFL team. Right? Or even Nelson Wolf, as he has recently shared, the deal that he negotiated was that the Spurs would give back 20% of their profits annually in an exchange for public dollars building the AT And T Center. And Nelson said on a pod different podcast, but he said asking, how much do we get back over 20 years? 0. Right? So, on on top of, you know, all that East Side development that people were, were were promised, and thought would come their way and just has not come. So I think, you know, is there an opportunity? Could there be a deal? Yes. If we think about it, I think, also in the context of our generational challenges. How can we think about, you know, using, potential, profits here to fully fund pre k for SA to help address with our our affordable housing crisis, and and and also making sure that, you know, as any anybody that's worked in national security also knows, that is a huge footprint, that will have significant needs when it comes to our public safety.

Bob Rivard [00:41:29]:
Right?

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:41:30]:
And so we wanna make sure that there are sufficient, funds going into the general fund to cover any additional cost because we can't go deeper into the general fund to pay for that. So, I mean, I think we're still waiting on some some data to answer some basic questions, but I think, it could be a generation opportunity for our community.

Bob Rivard [00:41:47]:
One other big investment that I wanna talk to you about that that began under, Ron Nirenberg's, term in office but is continuing is the airport expansion. And we're in a a very unpleasant lawsuit, Southwest Airlines versus the city. That's a really bad look for the city, and, it's gotten quite a bit of national attention. And I I just wonder how you feel about, the airport expansion in general. It's it's been an underperforming airport for a long time in the eyes of many of us who travel professionally, and and, the expansion's exciting. The investment's exciting. But instead, we're in the middle of a very, contentious lawsuit.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:42:29]:
Yeah. I mean, in general, I'm with you. Whenever the city doesn't look good, I don't feel good about that. Right? Because we always wanna put our best foot forward, because then that kind of frames how other people think about other opportunities in our city. Right? So you always wanna make sure, especially with, with deals that could potentially go this way. I always have kind of the Washington Post test or New York Times test or San Antonio's res news test right in my mind is what what it could potentially be on the headline. And then you you wanna make sure that you're working with, you're being as transparent as you can be. And, you know, this is a conversation to have with the with the city manager in terms of kind of where was the where was the ball dropped here, and, ultimately, how do we get this to as best a place as it can be? Yeah.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:43:14]:
I yes. Those of us that have traveled, we think about our own airport in the context of of others and how we have a great opportunity to really highlight, and and better serve our folks that are are traveling. So I think it's and and honestly, it is, yeah, kind of someone's first impression of a community when you fly into the airport and you walk through that. Is it easy to navigate? Is it, what are the types of, services that are provided, etcetera? So we always, at all points, wanna put forward our our our best foot. So, you know, really looking and digging into the details to figure out how we can get that resolved as as quickly as as possible so that we are, focusing on what matters, which is bringing more people to San Antonio.

Bob Rivard [00:43:52]:
In 02/2019, under, the mayor's leadership, the council passed the San Antonio Climate Action and Adaptation Plan. I think most people that look at that from the outside would agree it's done very little except gather dust on the shelf, and very little of it's been implemented. Our quality of our air has gone down. Incidence of both adolescents and adult asthma has gone way up. Transportation, we haven't had the money to invest in via that that, other cities have. And as a result, congestion traffic congestion's growing worse. The state's undertaken multibillion dollar expansions of the highway system but invested little to nothing in in mass transit, and, we've been waiting and waiting for some solution to the I 35 Corridor between here and Austin, which is the fastest growing population base in The United States. I just wonder how you feel about is it time to scrap that plan or dust it off and see what we can do with it? But are we gonna do nothing about climate change for the future generations of our city that are far more concerned with that than, say, people my age, the baby boomer generation in general that, you know, is still arguing over whether the climate is changing or why.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:45:10]:
Yeah. Well, you know who know you know who knows who the climate that the climate is changing? Insurance companies. Right? That increasingly don't want to insure folks in Texas. So it's interesting you ask ask this question. We just had a climate forum a couple of days ago. And, in preparation for that, I took the time to review the the plan, the recent plan. And it's a long document. It's a long document that is short on metrics.

Bob Rivard [00:45:33]:
And short on data because you like data.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:45:35]:
Yeah. I do like data, and it's short on that. It's short on metrics because there's not only the plan, then there was the 2023 annual report, which is not long. It's only 11 pages, to include your cover page and your ending page. But when I look at the metrics there and one of the things that you show me as a metric is your social media impressions. Right? I mean, it shows me you're not serious. So we are due for, a refresh of that. And I would make sure that we have metrics in there that are driving again where we wanna be.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:46:06]:
I mean, having a goal of of, you know, net zero by a certain time is important. But now what is the plan to do that? Because also it's those metrics that will help guide our investments, right, when it comes to the bond, also a very helpful measure, as well as even our public health, to your point, how how public health, investments. These that that is a document, and those metrics should be guiding us. But you gotta have the metrics to to do that. And as a leader, I would wanna make sure not only do we have metrics, but also that that office is well resourced.

Bob Rivard [00:46:35]:
Okay. This is sort of a wild card last question. Okay. We've had a couple of mayors, Gina, over the course of their terms, indicate that they were leaving before, their time was up, or we we saw Julian Castro go to housing and urban development as the secretary, under president, Obama and his second term.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:47:00]:
Mhmm.

Bob Rivard [00:47:00]:
Mayor Nirenberg, sort of left San Antonio to campaign, for for president Biden and then later on for, Kamala Harris. If you were elected, mayor, would you stay on the job? Or if a national opportunity came along, would you be susceptible to saying I'm gonna step down to take that?

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:47:22]:
I think that's all that is really putting the cart before the horse. I'm focused on May 3 and winning this race and serving my my hometown.

Bob Rivard [00:47:28]:
Okay. Any last thoughts before we, wrap it up?

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:47:32]:
Well, look. Thank thank you for the opportunity.

Bob Rivard [00:47:34]:
We've covered a lot for coming.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:47:35]:
Yes. Of course. We covered a lot of ground. Folks can go to my website, ginaortizjones.com. Maybe I look at you, ginaortizjones.com, and look at my first one the the things I wanna accomplish in the first one hundred days. Right? Again, you've gotta have a plan, and make sure that we're moving our city in the right direction. A four year term allows us to be much bolder. I think it's important.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:47:54]:
Yeah. As we have talked about, talking about things in the near term, but also the longer term, but also making being willing to partner at the state level, at the federal level where we can, and being very clear about the consequences of some of the other policies in play, though. So I'd be honored to have people's votes. And, you know, May 3, is right around the corner. April, early voting starts on the twenty second. So before you will get your chicken on the stick, vote for Gina Ortiz Jones.

Bob Rivard [00:48:17]:
Before Fiesta. Well, we appreciate you, and and and we appreciate all the candidates that have come on. We've been to a number of the forums. I know you guys are doing something every night and probably breakfast and lunch too. But those tend to be very crowded stages, and you're sometime really don't get to articulate visions in more detail. And we're hoping through the podcast and your candidate statement on on our website that, that people can learn more about you and and what kind of mayor you hope to be. So thanks for coming on to Big City, Small Town.

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:48:47]:
Thanks.

Bob Rivard [00:48:50]:
Please share this episode with friends and colleagues, and do sign up for Monday Musings, our weekly newsletter at bigcitysmalltown.com. Big City Small Town is brought to you by Western Urban, building the city our children want to to call home, and Geekdom, where startups are born and smart ideas become businesses. Our producer is Corey Eames, video by Erica Rempel, and sound engineering by Alfie de la Garza of Sound Crane Audio. We will see you next

Gina Ortiz Jones [00:49:22]:
week.